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Using Supersoft
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Author:  Imbler [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Using Supersoft
I've used supersoft for all my bending following a recommendation I've seen numerous places on the web:
Spray sides, stand upright and allow to soak/dry overnight, then bend.

Since then, I've seen that SS is only active while it is wet, so I may have been receiving only a placebo effect from using it. Since I'm going to try a more difficult wood (maple rather than EIR) on my next build, I want to make sure I get the benefit.

I've also seen recommended to spray, wrap in foil and let set overnight. That would seem to keep it active.

What are the recommendations from you good folks with experience?
thanks, Mike
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
My $0.02
Personally I spray, wrap in clingfilm and then foil (wet contact with foil can discolor some woods), leave up at least 24 hrs depending on the wood.
Then unwrap and dry, bending soon after.
If I want to allow a side in the bender overnight to cool/set, I can unwrap/dry the other side the next day, as the effect only lasts 24-36 hrs I believe, and delays are not unusual. Then I have to wet it again and wait.
I look at it, SSII is veneer (0.6 mm thick type) softener and my sides are 3+ times as thick, so I just like give it plenty time to penetrate the wood. Doesn't seem to hurt the color any.

I don't bend it wet, as the fumes are not the best to breath (and are a bit flammable), and ventilate the shop for bending anyway.
Just involves a bit of planning ahead, doesn't actually take time as such.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I'm not sure exactly where you have seen that it is only active when it is wet or if that advice applies to using it for it's intended purpose (flatening or working thin veneer cold), but I have always had good results using it after spraying it the previous evening. I have not done any controlled experiments mind you, but I have used it and successfully bent woods that I should have had trouble with and wasn't even particularly careful about it. I would say it works. . . Also, we may need to define "wet." When I spray it on the night before to let it soak in, it is not wet on the surface when I bend it but I wouldn't say it is dry either. It is soaked into the wood but not wet to the touch. Like if you sprayed a side with water and let it dry, it wouldn't be drippy but the wood itself would still be "wet" for a time.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
Spray, wrap in foil, leave overnight, bend next day.

Whether that's the best way or not, I don't know. But that's how we do it.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I use it this way
spray lightly allow to dry about 1 hr
I use untreated paper , dampen and bend. Remove and place in mold about 40 min after heat.
As you all can see there are many ways to make this stuff work. Find the technique that works best for you
Author:  Josh H [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I spray and wrap the sides in a garbage bag. Let sit overnight and bend the next day.

I remember hearing way back that it took 7 days for the effects of the SS wear off. I suspect that it is quicker once the wood is baked.
Author:  TimAllen [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
"I've seen that SS is only active while it is wet." This has not been my experience. I paint it on, wait 24 hours, and bend. Curly maple bindings bent easily with SuperSoft, but a few days later, just trying to bend them slightly to fit over the guitar caused them to break. Rebending new ones from the same wood, I found the increased flexibility held for a couple of days but not (in this case) more.

I have never had a need to wrap in foil or plastic, but since John Hall does it, I will try it the next time I have difficult wood. In any case, the stuff penetrates deeply. Prior to bending some quilted maple a few weeks ago, I used SS, and solution I put on one side penetrated to the other side in 30 seconds. I still slathered it on both sides, just for safe sureness. Twenty-four hours later that maple bent easily in my Fox bender, without any of the "faceting" effect sometimes seen with quilted.

If you have any off-cuts, even little ones, I urge you to test bend first with and w/o SuperSoft.
Author:  Ken McKay [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
Supersoft is an agent that retains moisture. So spraying wood with it will retain the moisture of wet wood. It will eventually evaporate and there will no longer be any ss effect.
I use it and bend cold three ply maple. Each is about 1mm. Tight cutaway.

It is probably no better than using soaked
Wood. Except i use glue and wet wood will not glue together when wet with water. But will when was wetted with ss the day before. This is because the moisture is evenly distributed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ken
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I can say that since using SS2 I have not ruined a set of wood. I only bent about 2000 sets of wood the last 3 years. I don't agree that SS is like saturated wood , this stuff works at the cellular level , and this allows the cells to collapse better than water does. I can't saw if it helps increase the steam temp or what but it does work.
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
bluescreek wrote:
I only bent about 2000 sets of wood the last 3 years..


No wonder BRW is on CITES John. :lol: I bet you didn't ruin many sets before SS. So........ how many do you think you have bent in your lifetime. Just so everyone knows who there dealing with here my friend. :)

Maple is pretty easy to bend. I just did a set of heavy quilt. I didn't feel like cleaning up any water stains. I spritzed the with a mix of equal parts SS and water. (Shipping is stupid to get SS to Canada) I spritzed the inside fully and just did the waist on the outside. Started bending at about 140C. 0 spring back and and required NO touch ups. Fit the parlour mould like a glove and only had to clean up sander marks. FWIW


One mans experience. :)
Author:  dberkowitz [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
meddlingfool wrote:
Spray, wrap in foil, leave overnight, bend next day.
You really don't want to wrap it in foil. Certain woods like the acacias -- Koa, Australian blackwood will discolor and often its too deep to remove. Wrap it in saran wrap if you feel its necessary, but NEVER wrap it in foil.
Author:  Doc [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
One time I used SSII for some curly maple bindings on an OM. Spritzed, wrapped in craft paper and left until the next day. It bent just fine except my technique didn't quite get the waist tight enough. I was afraid it might crack or break as I glued that area so out of curiosity I applied just a little to that part of the bend. It immediately became pliable and wanted to straighten out. I just taped the area into place and waited overnight. After it had dried it was perfect. Whew!
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
dberkowitz wrote:
meddlingfool wrote:
Spray, wrap in foil, leave overnight, bend next day.
You really don't want to wrap it in foil. Certain woods like the acacias -- Koa, Australian blackwood will discolor and often its too deep to remove. Wrap it in saran wrap if you feel its necessary, but NEVER wrap it in foil.

Worth saying again. [:Y:]
Author:  kencierp [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I've had issue with highly Curled Maple 1/4 sawn Bindings .076" thick de-laminating every segment at the waist curve. I used the Supersoft "soak over night" method for those, I processed a couple of sets that way same problem. Our bending process uses very tight back up compression.

Bindings off that billet liked light water spritz high heat.
Author:  James Orr [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I recently bent some highly figured koa sides. It was my first time using SuperSoft, and things went perfectly. I just followed the directions on the bottle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
I just follow the directions on the bottle too. Spray, cover with paper towel, weight to prevent cupping, change towels as needed until dry and bend.

Usually treat in the evening and bend the next day.
Author:  Imbler [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using Supersoft
Ok, from all the great replies I've gotten here, I've concluded the actual process used with SS isn't too critical. Going forward I'll probably use John Hall's method because it will be more convenient for the way I do things (and with 2000 sides bent without a crack, it obviously works just fine).

Just out of curiosity, I'm going to take the advice from one of the posts to experiment with cutoffs. I'm going to take a strip of side, clamp it in the middle, then wet one side with SS. Periodically I'll hang equal weights from each end and try to determine approx how soon it becomes effective and how long it takes for the effectiveness to wear off. If I get results that appear meaningful, I'll report back in case anyone else is curious,
MIke
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